[Coladam] Coladam Digest, Vol 88, Issue 7

Jim Notini jnoti2 at comcast.net
Tue Oct 23 23:01:48 CEST 2012


Great idea Shon! All that's needed now is to find someone to recode the 1K 
EOS-HD Boot Loader.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <shonmccallum at juno.com>
To: <coladam at adamcon.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Coladam] Coladam Digest, Vol 88, Issue 7


> The Atarimax Ultimate SD cartirdge could be used as a boot cartridge if 
> someone spends the time to do so. Just like the old SmartBasic and Walters 
> EOS boot cartridges.
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: coladam-request at adamcon.org
> To: coladam at adamcon.org
> Subject: Coladam Digest, Vol 88, Issue 7
> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 03:14:19 +0200
>
> Send Coladam mailing list submissions to
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>  1. Homebrew CV cartridges (Kevin Powers)
>  2. Re: CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable? (Kevin Powers)
>  3. Re: CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable? (Kevin Powers)
>  4. ColecoVision Super Game Module available for orders
>     (Eduardo Mello)
>  5. Re: CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable? (Jim Notini)
>  6. Re: Homebrew CV cartridges (Jim Notini)
>  7. Re: Homebrew CV cartridges (Frances and/or Richard Clee)
>  8. Re: CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable?
>     (Frances and/or Richard Clee)
>  9. Fwd:  Homebrew CV cartridges (Eduardo Mello)
> 10. running Super Games from HD (Rich Drushel)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:04:57 -0400
> From: Kevin Powers <kjpmail at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Coladam] Homebrew CV cartridges
> To: coladam at adamcon.org
> Message-ID:
> <CAB1UwGWfy2y0WBYwzZmpq6QqpTj9Vs0VS3mMp71chHGDE6ZQhw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> It looks like Opcode Games is sold out of the Pac-Man Collection & Space
> Invaders Collection carts.  Does that mean they're gone forever & cannot 
> be
> ordered?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:19:18 -0400
> From: Kevin Powers <kjpmail at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coladam] CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable?
> To: coladam at adamcon.org
> Message-ID:
> <CAB1UwGUAr_qu1Cnsoabzik83EJ8+ryFkVWK5+VaJTbgu0=GWDw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Would it be possible to create a custom cartridge that would serve as a
> boot loader for the IDE/CF from the cartridge slot?
> I'm concerned about the tapes becoming unreliable over time. If a cart
> could boot the IDE/CF then that would take the tape thing out of the loop.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:20:05 -0400
> From: Kevin Powers <kjpmail at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coladam] CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable?
> To: coladam at adamcon.org
> Message-ID:
> <CAB1UwGX_TDdwrOaSAfzfV+Eo4RMtNAyMr4uQYYCEuRLZ3ure-Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Would it be possible to create a custom cartridge that would serve as a
> boot loader for the IDE/CF from the cartridge slot?
>
> I'm concerned about the tapes becoming unreliable over time.  If a cart
> could boot the IDE/CF then that would take the tape thing out of the loop.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:40:37 -0400
> From: Eduardo Mello <eduardo at opcodegames.com>
> Subject: [Coladam] ColecoVision Super Game Module available for orders
> To: coladam at adamcon.org
> Message-ID:
> <CAPKMOcNOCY-2BjqCFo7icUwajZLX+v2qUe6s8um3ww5AhGfyrA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi,
>
> I was going to post the full text here, but it is easier if you follow
> the link and check the most up to date information:
>
> http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/203362-super-game-module-now-available-for-order/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eduardo
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:41:50 -0500
> From: "Jim Notini" <jnoti2 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Coladam] CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable?
> To: "Kevin Powers" <kjpmail at gmail.com>
> Cc: coladam at adamcon.org
> Message-ID: <22DD5C8AA5C649F681114CDD55F23B79 at HomePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Yeah, sad state of affairs, but right now, this is the best that can be 
> done. A gentleman that goes by the name of Else on AtariAge has developed 
> an ADAMnet SD Drive that allows for the loading of Disk Images and it 
> works, but no one has heard from him in over a year... big bummer there. 
> It was demoed at an ADAMcon a couple years ago and there is a lengthy 
> thread on AtariAge discussing it... just search for ADAMnet SD Drive.
>
> To answer your questions:
>
> 1) You can play Buck via DDP or Disk, that's it for now.
>
> 2) There is more ADAM software that WILL work with the IDE/CF package than 
> will not work and I'm plugging away at all the best titles. SmartLOGO, 
> SmartBASIC, some utilities, most Homerew games will indeed work.
>
> 3) An IDE Boot Cartridge is a very good idea although I would prefer a 
> Boot Prom that would install in a Parallel Interface Card with the 
> available open socket
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Kevin Powers
> To: Jim Notini
> Cc: Steve Pitman ; coladam at adamcon.org
> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 9:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coladam] CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable?
>
>
> That is some of the saddest news that I have ever heard.  I absolutely 
> love Super Buck Rogers Planet Of Zoom and it would break my heart if, 
> years hence, I was unable to ever play it on a real live ADAM again. 
> :-(  I had been hoping that this would be the solution.
>
> New questions:
>
> 1) So you're saying that if I want to make Buck live forever, I'm going to 
> have to eventually get a floppy drive?
>
> 2) How about SmartLogo and other stuff?  Utility programs?  BASIC 
> programs/games?  Homebrew games that were released on tape/disk?  Can all 
> of that stuff be put on the IDE/CF?
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Jim Notini <jnoti2 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>   Unfortunately all the Coleco made Super Games are NOT compatible with 
> the IDE setup as was the case with other ADAM Hard Drives from back in the 
> day. The Super Games are contained on non-standard EOS media due to the 
> fact that they don't contain a standard directory, they load by reading 
> specific block #'s, so very unlikely that they will ever be hacked/patched 
> to work.
>
>   You don't copy DDP / DISK images to the partitions, you copy the actual 
> files, image files are only useable via emulators in Windows PCs or Macs.
>
>   The max number of EOS partitions (10) is limited by the setup program 
> which was written back in 1991.
>
>   A DDP or Disk with the boot loader to gain access to the IDE/CF is 
> required.
>
>     ----- Original Message ----- 
>     From: Kevin Powers
>     To: Jim Notini
>     Cc: Steve Pitman ; coladam at adamcon.org
>     Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 8:43 PM
>     Subject: Re: [Coladam] CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable?
>
>
>     Jim & Co.,
>
>     I'd like to follow up on your IDE/CF issue.  I'm considering saving up 
> to eventually get one of those drives from Bob.  It's not clear to me 
> whether/how it would be possible to include on the CF a complete set of 
> the various Super Game Packs, SmartLOGO, etc.  Would each tape/disk image 
> need its own partition?  If so, is the number of partitions limited to the 
> number that it comes with?
>
>     Basically, I'm worried that I would get the drive but find myself 
> still having to use tapes (I neither have nor can afford an ADAM disk 
> drive!) to run Super Back Rogers, which is one of my all-time favorites, 
> or the various other Super Game Packs that I didn't get to play years ago 
> but would very much like to play today.
>
>     (Also, is it possible to boot into the IDE/CF without using a cassette 
> to "bootstrap" it?  Or is the initial cassette necessary to get over to 
> the IDE?)
>
>     Thanks,
>     Kevin
>
>
>
>
>     On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Jim Notini <jnoti2 at comcast.net> 
> wrote:
>
>       Hey Steve, great to hear from you and sorry that I haven't kept in 
> touch. I may have to pick your brain as I've been working going to town 
> setting up EOS software to run thru EOS-HD by Tony Morehen as I recently 
> picked up an IDE Card and an IDE Compact Flash Drive (other IDE drives 
> will work as well) from Bob Slopsema. It took me about a week, on and off, 
> to figure out how to get Temple of the Snow Dragon to work and there are 
> some others that are giving me fits that I'd might need some help if you 
> have some free time.
>
>       I'll put some stuff together and email it to you in the next day or 
> two.
>
>       As I mentioned, the ADAM (with built-in ColecoVision) is a lot less 
> prone to this controller issue.
>
>       ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Pitman" <swp at cinci.rr.com>
>       To: "Jim Notini" <jnoti2 at comcast.net>
>       Cc: "Kevin Powers" <kjpmail at gmail.com>; <coladam at adamcon.org>
>       Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 4:53 PM
>
>       Subject: Re: [Coladam] CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable?
>
>
>       Yeah, I definitely don't recommend swapping them while the system is 
> on.  My wife did that on one of my Adams years ago and it did damage it. 
> Well... It was actually the Colecovision that was damaged since I was 
> using the expansion module Adam. The Colecovision was totally dead though, 
> I had to have the board replaced.
>
>
>
>       On Oct 21, 2012, at 4:53 PM, "Jim Notini" <jnoti2 at comcast.net> 
> wrote:
>
>
>         In hindsight.... YES!
>
>         The likiehood of blowing these IC Chips on the improved 
> ColecoVision PCB in the ADAM is less likely than blowing it on a real 
> ColecoVision Game System. BITD I used to change out controllers with the 
> system on all the time without any problems, but now I practice a lot more 
> caution with all this old equipment.
>
>          ----- Original Message -----  From: Kevin Powers
>          To: Jim Notini
>          Cc: coladam at adamcon.org
>          Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:07 PM
>          Subject: Re: [Coladam] CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable?
>
>
>          Well... wouldn't you say that if swapping out controllers with 
> the power on could lead to a blown chip, then the controllers are not 
> really hot-swappable?
>
>
>
>          On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Jim Notini <jnoti2 at comcast.net> 
> wrote:
>
>            Yes, you can switch the controllers anytime you want and even 
> switch between the standard controllers and one of the additional 
> controllers (Driving Module, Roller Controller, Super Action) while the 
> system is ON. However, I don't recommend that you do this as eventually 
> this method could lead to a blown Controller IC Chip on the CV PCB.
>
>            Treat the controllers just like you do a cartridge and always 
> connect them with the system OFF.
>
>            ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Powers" 
> <kjpmail at gmail.com>
>            To: <coladam at adamcon.org>
>            Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 9:58 AM
>
>            Subject: [Coladam] CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable?
>
>
>
>              Are the CV/ADAM game controllers hot-swappable?
>
>              _______________________________________________
>              Coladam mailing list
>              Coladam at adamcon.org
>              http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Coladam mailing list
>         Coladam at adamcon.org
>         http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:46:43 -0500
> From: "Jim Notini" <jnoti2 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Coladam] Homebrew CV cartridges
> To: "Kevin Powers" <kjpmail at gmail.com>, <coladam at adamcon.org>
> Message-ID: <AC8E338E760E40E299052A0D6CCA3D59 at HomePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Both of these have been showing up on eBay a lot more, so keep your eyes
> peeled. Also Space Invaders Collection will be getting reissued as a SGM
> game in the future.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kevin Powers" <kjpmail at gmail.com>
> To: <coladam at adamcon.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 8:04 AM
> Subject: [Coladam] Homebrew CV cartridges
>
>
>> It looks like Opcode Games is sold out of the Pac-Man Collection & Space
>> Invaders Collection carts.  Does that mean they're gone forever & cannot
>> be
>> ordered?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Coladam mailing list
>> Coladam at adamcon.org
>> http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:54:57 -0400
> From: Frances and/or Richard Clee <cleechez at tamcotec.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coladam] Homebrew CV cartridges
> To: Kevin Powers <kjpmail at gmail.com>
> Cc: coladam at adamcon.org
> Message-ID: <5085CEC1.2010809 at tamcotec.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Kevin, I think the answer to your question is that it all depends on
> Opcode games. If they are faced with enough users waving dollars in
> their faces to cover the costs of a new production run, and unless the
> first run was specifically sold as a limited edition, I suspect they
> would find the temptation to produce more very difficult to resist. But
> given the sales of the first run and comparable collections, they would
> likely have to wait until they had enough cash deposits in hand, and the
> likelihood of that happening seems diminishingly small. At least that's
> my interpretation of what the game makers have been telling us.
>
>
>
>
> On 10/22/2012 9:04 AM, Kevin Powers wrote:
>> It looks like Opcode Games is sold out of the Pac-Man Collection&  Space
>> Invaders Collection carts.  Does that mean they're gone forever&  cannot 
>> be
>> ordered?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Coladam mailing list
>> Coladam at adamcon.org
>> http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:59:07 -0400
> From: Frances and/or Richard Clee <cleechez at tamcotec.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coladam] CV/ADAM controllers hot-swappable?
> To: Kevin Powers <kjpmail at gmail.com>
> Cc: coladam at adamcon.org
> Message-ID: <5085CFBB.3020507 at tamcotec.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Kevin - not sure if it answers your question of not, but if my
> recollection is correct - and if it is relevant - the Walters brothers
> did have some programs such as SmartBASIC in bootable cartridges. There
> was also provision for a boot prom on MicroInnovations MIB2 and 3 cards.
>
>
>
>
> On 10/22/2012 10:19 AM, Kevin Powers wrote:
>> Would it be possible to create a custom cartridge that would serve as a
>> boot loader for the IDE/CF from the cartridge slot?
>> I'm concerned about the tapes becoming unreliable over time. If a cart
>> could boot the IDE/CF then that would take the tape thing out of the 
>> loop.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Coladam mailing list
>> Coladam at adamcon.org
>> http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 19:22:26 -0400
> From: Eduardo Mello <eduardo at opcodegames.com>
> Subject: [Coladam] Fwd:  Homebrew CV cartridges
> To: coladam at adamcon.org
> Message-ID:
> <CAPKMOcNhx9DB+gFqxfTsWijrCf6=7qyycJgrFxLV6iNf6-h4yQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I will make them available again eventually. In fact I plan to do that
> with Space Invaders Collection next year, for its 10th anniversary.
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Kevin Powers 
> <kjpmail at gmail.com<DISABLEDSCRIPT:;>>
> wrote:
>> It looks like Opcode Games is sold out of the Pac-Man Collection & Space
>> Invaders Collection carts.  Does that mean they're gone forever & cannot
> be
>> ordered?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Coladam mailing list
>> Coladam at adamcon.org <DISABLEDSCRIPT:;>
>> http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 21:14:18 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "Rich Drushel" <drushel at apk.net>
> Subject: [Coladam] running Super Games from HD
> To: coladam at adamcon.org
> Message-ID:
> <51129.129.22.129.189.1350954858.squirrel at mail.expedient.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> Wow, so much traffic on the list that I can't find where the bit about 
> this
> was discussed.  However:
>
> Gist of discussion was, people want to play Super Games from a hard drive,
> but since Super Games access raw tape blocks 0-255, rather than named 
> files
> in a directory, there can be no support.  Moreover, someone said that the
> Super Game tapes being end-directory rather than center-directory would be
> a problem.
>
> Well... I will add a qualified "not so fast..."
>
> Part of the nightmare that is the EOS partition on the standard 10 MB
> hard drive, especially volume 0 block 0, is various patches for software
> that accessed raw blocks from tape or disk.  I don't know who did them
> all (I would guess Tony Morehen), because they were already in place when
> I first started working on Mini Winnie HD stuff with Herman Mason and
> George Koczwara in 1991.  The gist of the patches was to put files from
> various applications in unmovable locations, recompute the block offsets
> for the various boot loaders (which was where most of the raw blocks stuff
> was happening), and then NEVER do a SQUEEZE or CRUNCH of volume 0.  The
> HD version of PowerPaint similarly must sit in a defined place, with its
> 64K XRAM requirement redirected to a virtual memory file that also has
> defined block offsets.
>
> When I reverse-engineered HARDDISK (the EOS program loader shell), for
> ADAMserve, one of the things I did was get rid of all the absolute block
> reads and convert them to standard EOS file I/O.  I *THINK* (but it has 
> been
> a long while) that I did something similar for ADAMlink V's boot loader.
>
> In all my patched versions of HARDDISK, the EOS that is loaded traps the
> keypress SHIFT-TAB, and causes that to increment the current HD volume
> (0-9), wrapping back to 0 from 9, and beeping each time.  This was a
> primitive way to boot from one HD volume, then change to another one as
> the default (for software that did not independently have a patch to
> specify the volume number as part of access to device 24 (tape2/HD), such
> as I did put into SmartBASIC 1.x).
>
> There is only convention for limiting EOS to 10 1024-block volumes -- in
> the days of 20 MB HDs, you put 10 MB for EOS and 10 MB for TDOS.  I don't
> recall the format of the volume 0/block 0 partition table, as interpreted
> by HARDDISK; but I do know that the current EOS volume is just one byte in
> a reserved location in EOS, so logically that could support volumes 0-255.
>
> To come back to Super Games on hard drives... the obvious solution to me
> is to insure that you can format an EOS partition to have at least 255
> volumes.  Put one Super Game tape image on its own volume.  (So what if
> 3/4 of it is not used, HD space is cheap, and currently HARDDISK I don't
> think can deal with EOS volumes of arbitrary different sizes).  Put its 
> boot
> block into volume 0, just like the boot block of any app you want to run.
> In HARDDISK, specify the target volume, then BOOT SOFTWARE.  So long as
> the game itself does not do disk I/O by directly manipulating the ADAMnet
> device control block (DCB), but rather uses EOS function calls, it will
> work with the patched EOSes that I know about, or at least the ones that
> I worked on for ADAMserve.  As far as I remember, the ADAMserve EOS can
> catch function calls all the way down to START_READ_1_BLOCK and 
> START_WRITE_
> 1_BLOCK (which is what the games call so that there is background tape
> rewind while the game is playing -- emulated or with a modern HD, it would
> be instantaneous).
>
> If the game is evil and bypasses EOS completely for block I/O, then the
> game would have to be disassembled and patched.  I have never disassembled
> a Super Game, so I don't know how well they were written to keep code and
> data segments separate.  If code is well-isolated and easily-identifiable,
> it may not be such a job to rewrite to use EOS block I/O and then make it
> emulatable.
>
> Doug Slopsema has been inside HARDDISK more recently than me, so I defer
> to his superior knowledge in case of any errors I have made here.
>
> As for end-directory vs. center-directory tape format, this would not
> affect the operation of the Super Game at all if moved to HD.  The only
> reason for center-directory was to minimize rewind for data tapes, since
> presumably you'd be doing writes as well as reads.  Games are read-only
> (except for a high score screen), and you are loading screens one at
> a time and playing straight through, so having everything in order from
> beginning to end is more efficient.  My Dad did a block copy of his 256K
> Donkey Kong Super Game to a 160K disk, and it played fine until he would
> reach the point in the game where access beyond block 159 was required.
> I remember playing this disk myself.
>
> So, the main problem is software, not hardware, at least for any Super 
> Game
> which does not bang bits in the ADAMnet DCBs.
>
> *Dr. D.*
>
>
> -- 
> Richard F. Drushel, Ph.D.            | "They fell:  for Heaven to them no 
> hope
> Department of Biology                |  imparts / Who hear not for the 
> beating
> Case Western Reserve University      |  of their hearts."
> Cleveland, Ohio  44106-7080  U.S.A.  |         -- Edgar Allan Poe, 
> "Al-Aaraaf"
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Coladam mailing list
> Coladam at adamcon.org
> http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
>
>
> End of Coladam Digest, Vol 88, Issue 7
> **************************************
> ____________________________________________________________
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