[Coladam] CVII

GGrair gwolverine at earthlink.net
Fri Oct 26 00:58:19 CEST 2012


I'd buy a couple!!

George Grair
MAUG - former Michigan Adam Users Group VP

-----Original Message-----
From: coladam-bounces at adamcon.org [mailto:coladam-bounces at adamcon.org] On
Behalf Of coladam-request at adamcon.org
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:06 PM
To: coladam at adamcon.org
Subject: Coladam Digest, Vol 88, Issue 25

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: More Colecovision II comments and suggestions
      (Joe Blenkle - Comcast)
   2. Re: Call the new Adam Colecovision II (Jim Notini)
   3. Re: Call the new Adam Colecovision II
      (tscott at magiqueproductions.com)
   4. Re: More Colecovision II comments and suggestions (Jim Notini)
   5. Re: Call the new Adam Colecovision II (Eduardo Mello)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:36:50 -0700
From: "Joe Blenkle - Comcast" <jblenkle at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Coladam] More Colecovision II comments and suggestions
To: <shonmccallum at juno.com>
Cc: coladam at adamcon.org
Message-ID: <ECA53E48BC884592A103605B09499B63 at sacnews>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="Windows-1252"

Well, we will see...but...

Eduardo...wasn't there some technical reason an HDMI hookup wouldn't work
for ColecoVision? Or was that just upgrading an old ColecoVision with one?
Would it be possible on a new and improved version?
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: shonmccallum at juno.com
  To: jblenkle at comcast.net
  Cc: coladam at adamcon.org
  Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [Coladam] More Colecovision II comments and suggestions


              Yes there are more advanced videogames on smartphones and
emulators for Playstation 3?s, etc. The reason the Colecovision II would
sell more than the supergame module is because the supergame module is a
very niche product that plays a very limited amount of games and it requires
someone to own a working Colecovision or ADAM already. Key word is working
Colecovision and Adam since many have broke in the last 30 years or so.

              A ColecoVision II at the very minimum should be able to sell
1,000 units since there is several hundred games already in existence and
people would be able to connect it to a modern 24 inch HDMI computer monitor
or flat screen LCD. 

              I could be under or over estimated the demand for the
ColecoVision II. Until there is a unit for sell no one will really kwow the
demand for sure.

              I am glad that Eduardo is considering making a ColecoVision II
and it would be safer to start out with 200 units then 500 units for sell. 



  ---------- Original Message ----------
  From: "Joe Blenkle - Comcast" <jblenkle at comcast.net>
  To: <shonmccallum at juno.com>, <coladam at adamcon.org>
  Subject: Re: [Coladam] More Colecovision II comments and suggestions
  Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 13:55:46 -0700

  I do not understand your reasoning. When ColecoVision was originally
  released it was state-of-the-art cutting edge video game technology. It
had
  millions of dollars behind it, along with TV and magazine ads. Now we have
  Smart Phones that are capable of running more advanced games than
  ColecoVision.

  With the Smart Phones, PCs, Xbox 360s, Sony PlayStations, Nintendo Wii -
who
  would honestly buy a CV2 over a more advanced...and possibly less
expensive
  machine? As a CV fan, I would want one, but only to guard against the
  electronic failure of my 30-year-old hardware which will probably come
  sooner rather than later. If I'm a gamer, I would bypass the 30-year-old
  technology in favor of a new machine.

  If there are 10,000 potential buyers out there based on your figures, why
  has Opcode's SGM barely topped 200 orders? Surely more of these 10,000
  buyers would want the SGM...not just 200. Likewise, why do the fantastic
  homebrew cartridges barely sell out a run of 100 games?

  Don't get me wrong...200+ SGMs is fantastic for what we are dealing with
  here...as are 100 homebrew cartridges...but 10,000? Without millions of
  dollars in marketing, advertising and production expenses, it just won't
  happen.

  I think you are taking a "Build it and they will buy" attitude...but
unless
  you are willing to be stuck with 9,800 CV2 consoles in your back bedroom
  anyone tackling this project and producing that many...or even a run of
  500...would be taking a huge financial risk.

  I know Eduardo has millions in his Cayman Islands and Swiss bank accounts,
  but even he seems to be balking at the numbers of units you are tossing
  around.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: <shonmccallum at juno.com>
  To: <coladam at adamcon.org>
  Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 1:11 PM
  Subject: [Coladam] More Colecovision II comments and suggestions


  The Colecovision first came out in 1982 and then was discontinued by
October 
  1985. Total amount of Colecovisions sold is estimated to be over 2 million

  back in the spring of 1984. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = 
  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColecoVision
  In 1986 a lower quality Colecovision clone called the Telegames Personal 
  Arcade was sold. The problem with the Telegames Personal Arcade is that it

  was not compatible with some Colecovision cartridge games and it lacked
the 
  expansion module slot. It is estimated that several thousands of consules 
  were sold but that has not been verified.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegames_Personal_Arcade
  Its been 30 years since the Colecovision first came out in 1982. Out of 2 
  million Colecovisions sold perhaps only 1% are still being used. If 1% of 
  people are still using their Colecovision then that would mean there are 
  currently 20,000 active users of the Colecovison console with perhaps many

  more using a PC Colecovision emulator (how many thousands of Colecovision 
  emulators have been downloaded?).
             So I believe that if a Colecovision II existed within the next 
  2-3 years that a minimum of 10,000 consules could be sold if it did 
  everything the old Colecovision did (including the front expansion slot)
and 
  offered a HDMI output with standard composite video output. A small
company 
  could start off by running off 500 Colecovsion II?s at a time and then
once 
  those are sold then another 500 could be made. Until one day perhaps
10,000 
  are sold after a few years.
  Maybe no one is interested in making that many Colelecovision II?s and
would 
  only want a limited run of 200. The problem with a limited run of 200 is 
  that it would not meet the demand.

  ____________________________________________________________
  Woman is 53 But Looks 25
  Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50899d2cdd9de1d2c1d3bst01vuc
  _______________________________________________
  Coladam mailing list
  Coladam at adamcon.org
  http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam


  -----
  No virus found in this message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5853 - Release Date: 10/25/12
  No virus found in this message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5853 - Release Date: 10/25/12


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:42:31 -0500
From: "Jim Notini" <jnoti2 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
To: <shonmccallum at juno.com>,	<jblenkle at comcast.net>
Cc: coladam at adamcon.org
Message-ID: <726ACADCCA7A4490840DD8EAC562F8E1 at HomePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

The only way that something like a CV2 goes more mainstream is if the rights

holders of the Coleco name (that Opcode has worked with already) think there

is potential in mass producing/marketing it, want to invest their money and 
take ALL the risk seeing as Opcode and others in the CV Community don't have

deep enough pockets for something like this.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <shonmccallum at juno.com>
To: <jblenkle at comcast.net>
Cc: <coladam at adamcon.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II


> You could start off by running off 500 machines at once and if the demand 
> was high enough 10,000 or more machines could be sold. <?xml:namespace 
> prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Joe Blenkle - Comcast" <jblenkle at comcast.net>
> To: <shonmccallum at juno.com>, <eduardo at opcodegames.com>
> Cc: <coladam at adamcon.org>
> Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:17:33 -0700
>
> OK, just for the sake of argument...10,000... Each unit costs $100 to 
> produce (hardware, box printing, manuals, etc.)...you got $1 million to 
> invest? Bank loan? Ummm...well, I want to re-create a modern version of a 
> 30-year-old video game console...DENIED... Plus you would be competing for

> sales & shelf space with Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo.----- Original 
> Message ----- From: shonmccallum at juno.com To: eduardo at opcodegames.com Cc: 
> jblenkle at comcast.net ; coladam at adamcon.org Sent: Thursday, October 25, 
> 2012 12:03 PMSubject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
> Perhaps Walmart would require 100,000 units, however 10,000 units would be

> ideal for Amazon , EBAY, and some small retail stores.
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Eduardo Mello <eduardo at opcodegames.com>
> To: Joe Blenkle - Comcast <jblenkle at comcast.net>
> Cc: shonmccallum at juno.com, coladam at adamcon.org
> Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:34:41 -0400
>
> Indeed.
> Eduardo
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Joe Blenkle - Comcast 
> <jblenkle at comcast.net> wrote:
> While I share your enthusiasm for all things ADAM/ColecoVision, I don't
> think Wal-Mart would give you the time of day unless you could supply them
> with several 100,000 units and guarantee them a substantial flow of 
> software
> for the machine. The kind of money needed to produce all this would kill 
> the
> project before it started.
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5853 - Release Date: 10/25/12
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> ConsumerLifestyleMag.com
> ____________________________________________________________
> Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50899133ef3fe11334f17st03vuc
> _______________________________________________
> Coladam mailing list
> Coladam at adamcon.org
> http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
> 




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:56:43 -0700
From: tscott at magiqueproductions.com
Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
To: coladam at adamcon.org
Message-ID:
	
<c0b331e74fbea8aacb408f24c33f1d95.squirrel at www.magiqueproductions.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

I think it could be possible. If they can make a 3-in-1 NES/SNES/Genesis
system and sell it for roughly $60 then certainly someone could do a CV
clone for that or less. That's all I'm saying. Now, whether or not Eduardo
or anyone else in the CV community could pull it off themselves is beside
the point. With all those retro clone manufacturers out there, wouldn't
one of them be interested in Coleco? Perhaps a 3-in-1 system like Atari
2600/Atari 7800/Colecovision. It would only need 2 cartridge slots for
that. Or to make it more attractive to other retro gamers it could be an
NES/SNES/CV clone.

I'm no hardware expert, but since they're already doing other retro clones
for low cost then it has to be possible for the CV. Technically, does it
really have to even use authentic components or couldn't it be cheaper,
better components and just emulate the system in software?

Tommy


> The only way that something like a CV2 goes more mainstream is if the
> rights
> holders of the Coleco name (that Opcode has worked with already) think
> there
> is potential in mass producing/marketing it, want to invest their money
> and
> take ALL the risk seeing as Opcode and others in the CV Community don't
> have
> deep enough pockets for something like this.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <shonmccallum at juno.com>
> To: <jblenkle at comcast.net>
> Cc: <coladam at adamcon.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
>
>
>> You could start off by running off 500 machines at once and if the
>> demand
>> was high enough 10,000 or more machines could be sold. <?xml:namespace
>> prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
>>
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: "Joe Blenkle - Comcast" <jblenkle at comcast.net>
>> To: <shonmccallum at juno.com>, <eduardo at opcodegames.com>
>> Cc: <coladam at adamcon.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
>> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:17:33 -0700
>>
>> OK, just for the sake of argument...10,000... Each unit costs $100 to
>> produce (hardware, box printing, manuals, etc.)...you got $1 million to
>> invest? Bank loan? Ummm...well, I want to re-create a modern version of
>> a
>> 30-year-old video game console...DENIED... Plus you would be competing
>> for
>> sales & shelf space with Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo.----- Original
>> Message ----- From: shonmccallum at juno.com To: eduardo at opcodegames.com
>> Cc:
>> jblenkle at comcast.net ; coladam at adamcon.org Sent: Thursday, October 25,
>> 2012 12:03 PMSubject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
>> Perhaps Walmart would require 100,000 units, however 10,000 units would
>> be
>> ideal for Amazon , EBAY, and some small retail stores.
>>
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: Eduardo Mello <eduardo at opcodegames.com>
>> To: Joe Blenkle - Comcast <jblenkle at comcast.net>
>> Cc: shonmccallum at juno.com, coladam at adamcon.org
>> Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
>> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:34:41 -0400
>>
>> Indeed.
>> Eduardo
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Joe Blenkle - Comcast
>> <jblenkle at comcast.net> wrote:
>> While I share your enthusiasm for all things ADAM/ColecoVision, I don't
>> think Wal-Mart would give you the time of day unless you could supply
>> them
>> with several 100,000 units and guarantee them a substantial flow of
>> software
>> for the machine. The kind of money needed to produce all this would kill
>> the
>> project before it started.
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5853 - Release Date:
>> 10/25/12
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Woman is 53 But Looks 25
>> Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
>> ConsumerLifestyleMag.com
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Woman is 53 But Looks 25
>> Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50899133ef3fe11334f17st03vuc
>> _______________________________________________
>> Coladam mailing list
>> Coladam at adamcon.org
>> http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Coladam mailing list
> Coladam at adamcon.org
> http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
>



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:56:19 -0500
From: "Jim Notini" <jnoti2 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Coladam] More Colecovision II comments and suggestions
To: <shonmccallum at juno.com>,	<coladam at adamcon.org>
Message-ID: <EEC10FC999FF4DB8A273F116C6E5FE44 at HomePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
	reply-type=original

Good old Wikipedia... there were 6 million ColecoVision sold worldwide. 
Also, there were roughly 950,000 ADAM Computers that were MADE... don't know

how many were actually completely packaged up into those huge ADAM boxes 
that everyone loves to talk about. Out of this number of ADAM Computers, 
there is no idea of how many were the Stand-Alone ADAM with built-in 
ColecoVision and how many were the Expansion Module #3 ADAM.

For discussion sake, let's say that less than half of the 950,000 number 
were the Expansion Module #3 variety, which would put the Stand-Alone number

of ADAM's at 500,000 or more.

So, 6 million CVs and 500,000 Stand-Alone ADAMs equals 6.5 million 
ColecoVision compatible systems, then add in the clones like the Dina 
(Personal Arcade, SpliceVision, etc.) and computers that had expansion units

that allowed them to play ColecoVision carts and probably the total number 
would be close to 7 million.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <shonmccallum at juno.com>
To: <coladam at adamcon.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:11 PM
Subject: [Coladam] More Colecovision II comments and suggestions


The Colecovision first came out in 1982 and then was discontinued by October

1985. Total amount of Colecovisions sold is estimated to be over 2 million 
back in the spring of 1984. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = 
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColecoVision
In 1986 a lower quality Colecovision clone called the Telegames Personal 
Arcade was sold. The problem with the Telegames Personal Arcade is that it 
was not compatible with some Colecovision cartridge games and it lacked the 
expansion module slot. It is estimated that several thousands of consules 
were sold but that has not been verified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegames_Personal_Arcade
Its been 30 years since the Colecovision first came out in 1982. Out of 2 
million Colecovisions sold perhaps only 1% are still being used. If 1% of 
people are still using their Colecovision then that would mean there are 
currently 20,000 active users of the Colecovison console with perhaps many 
more using a PC Colecovision emulator (how many thousands of Colecovision 
emulators have been downloaded?).
            So I believe that if a Colecovision II existed within the next 
2-3 years that a minimum of 10,000 consules could be sold if it did 
everything the old Colecovision did (including the front expansion slot) and

offered a HDMI output with standard composite video output. A small company 
could start off by running off 500 Colecovsion II?s at a time and then once 
those are sold then another 500 could be made. Until one day perhaps 10,000 
are sold after a few years.
Maybe no one is interested in making that many Colelecovision II?s and would

only want a limited run of 200. The problem with a limited run of 200 is 
that it would not meet the demand.

____________________________________________________________
Woman is 53 But Looks 25
Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50899d2cdd9de1d2c1d3bst01vuc
_______________________________________________
Coladam mailing list
Coladam at adamcon.org
http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:05:35 -0400
From: Eduardo Mello <eduardo at opcodegames.com>
Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
To: tscott at magiqueproductions.com
Cc: coladam at adamcon.org
Message-ID:
	<CAPKMOcPPgt5RaeD+hossb=7ycArcCfz2-1=pq9iu7eT-pw+t2A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Simple answer, all the ColecoVision games we care about involves some sort
of license, be it arcade, movie, cartoon or whatever. That is why we don't
see a Flashback like CV, and that is why the Coleco license is mostly
useless. That is what River West Brands found out once they had the
license, but I guess then it was too late...

Eduardo

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:56 PM, <tscott at magiqueproductions.com> wrote:

> I think it could be possible. If they can make a 3-in-1 NES/SNES/Genesis
> system and sell it for roughly $60 then certainly someone could do a CV
> clone for that or less. That's all I'm saying. Now, whether or not Eduardo
> or anyone else in the CV community could pull it off themselves is beside
> the point. With all those retro clone manufacturers out there, wouldn't
> one of them be interested in Coleco? Perhaps a 3-in-1 system like Atari
> 2600/Atari 7800/Colecovision. It would only need 2 cartridge slots for
> that. Or to make it more attractive to other retro gamers it could be an
> NES/SNES/CV clone.
>
> I'm no hardware expert, but since they're already doing other retro clones
> for low cost then it has to be possible for the CV. Technically, does it
> really have to even use authentic components or couldn't it be cheaper,
> better components and just emulate the system in software?
>
> Tommy
>
>
> > The only way that something like a CV2 goes more mainstream is if the
> > rights
> > holders of the Coleco name (that Opcode has worked with already) think
> > there
> > is potential in mass producing/marketing it, want to invest their money
> > and
> > take ALL the risk seeing as Opcode and others in the CV Community don't
> > have
> > deep enough pockets for something like this.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <shonmccallum at juno.com>
> > To: <jblenkle at comcast.net>
> > Cc: <coladam at adamcon.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
> >
> >
> >> You could start off by running off 500 machines at once and if the
> >> demand
> >> was high enough 10,000 or more machines could be sold. <?xml:namespace
> >> prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Original Message ----------
> >> From: "Joe Blenkle - Comcast" <jblenkle at comcast.net>
> >> To: <shonmccallum at juno.com>, <eduardo at opcodegames.com>
> >> Cc: <coladam at adamcon.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
> >> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:17:33 -0700
> >>
> >> OK, just for the sake of argument...10,000... Each unit costs $100 to
> >> produce (hardware, box printing, manuals, etc.)...you got $1 million to
> >> invest? Bank loan? Ummm...well, I want to re-create a modern version of
> >> a
> >> 30-year-old video game console...DENIED... Plus you would be competing
> >> for
> >> sales & shelf space with Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo.----- Original
> >> Message ----- From: shonmccallum at juno.com To: eduardo at opcodegames.com
> >> Cc:
> >> jblenkle at comcast.net ; coladam at adamcon.org Sent: Thursday, October 25,
> >> 2012 12:03 PMSubject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
> >> Perhaps Walmart would require 100,000 units, however 10,000 units would
> >> be
> >> ideal for Amazon , EBAY, and some small retail stores.
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Original Message ----------
> >> From: Eduardo Mello <eduardo at opcodegames.com>
> >> To: Joe Blenkle - Comcast <jblenkle at comcast.net>
> >> Cc: shonmccallum at juno.com, coladam at adamcon.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Coladam] Call the new Adam Colecovision II
> >> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:34:41 -0400
> >>
> >> Indeed.
> >> Eduardo
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Joe Blenkle - Comcast
> >> <jblenkle at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> While I share your enthusiasm for all things ADAM/ColecoVision, I don't
> >> think Wal-Mart would give you the time of day unless you could supply
> >> them
> >> with several 100,000 units and guarantee them a substantial flow of
> >> software
> >> for the machine. The kind of money needed to produce all this would
kill
> >> the
> >> project before it started.
> >>
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5853 - Release Date:
> >> 10/25/12
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> >> Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> >> ConsumerLifestyleMag.com
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> >> Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50899133ef3fe11334f17st03vuc
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Coladam mailing list
> >> Coladam at adamcon.org
> >> http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Coladam mailing list
> > Coladam at adamcon.org
> > http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Coladam mailing list
> Coladam at adamcon.org
> http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam
>


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Coladam mailing list
Coladam at adamcon.org
http://adamcon.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coladam


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