> chat > Thu 2010-01-14

Chat for Thu 2010-01-14 03:05:17

rich-c: everyone arrive at once?
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Daniel B.
rich-c: in fact, are you there?
Daniel B.: bonsoir!
rich-c: salut, Daniel
Daniel B.: Where is Frances?
Daniel B.: It's birthday time!
Daniel B.: party!
rich-c: sleeping off the ice cream, in the living room
Daniel B.: sleeping? ... too much sugar?
rich-c: I'm afraid us old folks are a little more conservative about such things
rich-c: just generally full stomachs
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Luc Miron
Luc Miron: Hi guys!
rich-c: in fact I dozed off myself, she had to wake me for the chat
Daniel B.: bonsoir Luc
Daniel B.: PARTY!
Luc Miron: PARTY?
rich-c: ah, Luc - bonsoir
Luc Miron: Bonsoir Rich. :)
rich-c: this was just my bad day
Daniel B.: I'm down this week, but today it's Frances' birthday!
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to <undefined>
rich-c: first my plastic coffee measuring spoon broke
Daniel B.: Who's entering and not entering at the same time?
rich-c: then the little plastic tag holding the bread closed snapped
<undefined>: Argh, what kind of name is undefined?
moved to room Meeting Place
rich-c: thyen the plastic handle on our shopping bag broke
changed username to Guy B
Guy B: Greetings!!!
Daniel B.: good evening GuyB
rich-c: oh, it's GuyB, finally made it in - hi, Guy
rich-c: we have three undefineds who may or may not be here
Luc Miron: So has anyone heard from GuyF recently?
Luc Miron: Hi GuyB. :)
Guy B: Brb
rich-c: nope, he's been quiet, but maybe the Facebookers know something
Luc Miron: Sorry to hear about your bad day, Rich. Today was a good day for me: The floor is finally done in my bedroom. :)
rich-c: oh dear - it needed a new floor? how come?
<undefined>: resurfacing, most likely.
rich-c: ah, well at least one of our undefineds is alive!
Daniel B.: saturday, GuyF did contact me by facebook because I did ask him a question
Daniel B.: Who's playing "guess who"? Pam?
rich-c: well, you young folk do a lot of Facebooking - us oldsters tend not to have the time
rich-c: no, Pam knows how to change undefined to her name
<undefined>: should be the other way around, oldsters don't work or have children to tend to, therefore, more time on hand.
Daniel B.: Identify yourself, please.
rich-c: should be, but first thing you retire, you wonder how you ever found time to go to work
<undefined>: I am undefined Daniel, not declared, therefore residing in your mind's eye.
rich-c: that sounds like one of our Montreal people
Daniel B.: And I'm about to request to kick out undefined people in this chat room.
Luc Miron: Yeah, we removed the carpet in my bedroom a few months ago, and my mom replainted the walls before we (finally) found a guy to install the wood floor panels.
<undefined>: could be, Rich. ;)
<undefined> changed username to Guy F.
Guy F.: Hiya
Luc Miron: Hey! GuyF is in the house!
rich-c: ah so, I ws guessing well tonight
Guy F.: Yeah, it's rare, but tonight I decided to stay up and party with you guys!
Guy B: Hi Guy F. Long time. no see
Guy F.: Hi everyone!!!
Luc Miron: Hey dude!
Guy F.: Hello my fellow Quebecers, Luc, Dan, fellow Canadians, Rich and other fellow North Americans, Guy B!
Luc Miron: Happy New Year, while it's crossing my mind. ;)
rich-c: yes, you missed the last chat
Guy F.: Thanks, happy new year to everyone, lots of health prosperty and coleco items off of ebay for cheap.
Luc Miron: Okay, GuyF, we've got plenty to talk about! Where do we start...
rich-c: the Slopsemas will be missing this one - they are somewhere at sea
Guy F.: Luc: Is Gulkave ready? :D
rich-c: on a ship that charges $4.25 to connect you to the net then $1.25 a minute for online time!
Luc Miron: @GuyF: Funny you should ask, because I'm working on the manual while I'm chatting here. :)
Guy F.: Nice, is the game ready though?
Luc Miron: You want to see the finalized box and cart label?
Guy F.: Did Opcode get to finish it?
Luc Miron: Yeah, it's just about ready. I'm testing the final release candidate these days.
Guy F.: Awesome!!!
Guy F.: I knew he could do it, if anybody could... he's dedicated to the colecovision...
Luc Miron: He's also working on Track & Field, just in case you're interested. ;)
Guy F.: hmmm Track and Field.
Luc Miron: These days, he's actually dedicated to the ColecoVision 2... :P
Guy F.: The SEM?
rich-c: so Guy, you going to help Daniel with the haggling for the Adamcon hotel?
Luc Miron: He just got a licensing agreement with River West Brand (owner of the Colecovision trademark) to use it for the ColecoVision 2.
Guy F.: If haggling needs to be done, I'll do it, but at the Hilton, not sure they haggle!
Daniel B.: GuyF, you should take a look at AtariAge forum to see how many things are going on, specially about ColecoVision.
Luc Miron: He's just about ready to dump the SEM in favor of a standalone ColecoVision clone, but this clone will contain the SEM's features and other stuff too.
rich-c: on conventions, everyone haggles, at least a little - Daniel isn't good at it though
Guy F.: Wow, excellent!!! I've been totally out of the Colecovision homebrew loop in years.
Guy F.: Well, if there's a hotel that retains your attention Daniel, let me know, and I can always go there in person.
Luc Miron: @GuyF: check this out:
rich-c: things always go better with someone on the scene, and Daniel is in Ste. Foy
Daniel B.: Guy's hotel seems to be the best choice... but I can't conclude any deal now. First because I didn't contact many hotels and second because the saler is not available at the moment, in vacation for two weeks.
Guy F.: I realize that, but I am very limited in time, usually running after work to go pick up the kids, etc...
Guy F.: The other hotels might be cheaper, but you get what you pay for.
rich-c: how wide a choice of hotels do you have?
Guy F.: The one I gave Daniel is really a nice one, top notch hotel.... something equivalent, if not better to the one in Whitby
Guy F.: It's really unlimited, actually 7 in Laval, but we can extend to Montreal if rates are better, but I doubt it.
rich-c: Frances and I are most worried about getting what we pay for, not what we have to pay
rich-c: but others are on tighter budgets.
Guy F.: I understand, I'll have to let Daniel do the official price requests, and if something interests us, we can go in for the kill and ask for a better deal.
Luc Miron: . o o (Okay, so I guess GuyF is not interested in Gulkave's box and manual...) ;)
Luc Miron: manua=cart label, sorry.
rich-c: my priorities are meeding my medical needs - handicap aids in the bathroom, twin beds, extra electrical outlets
Guy F.: Sorry Luc, I am unable to copy the link off of Spaniel Chat...
Daniel B.: The price of the meeting room is the main problem. If we can get at least a rebate because of the number of rooms*nights, it will be fine. But to negociate , I've to talk with the saler.
Luc Miron: Really? I can do it just fine...
rich-c: Guy, highlight it, hit control-c, that puts it on the clipboard
Luc Miron: Yeah, what rich said. :)
rich-c: then get it off with control-v to notepad or something
Guy F.: Right click doesn't give any kind of menu.
Guy F.: Perhaps negotiate a smaller meeting room?
rich-c: I have Ditto and Clipboard Recorder, so anything I copy is accessible till I take it out of them
Guy F.: worked! thanks Rich. :)
Guy F.: Girl's Garden is pretty. :)
rich-c: more important is internet for everyone in the meeting room (Wifi OK), screen, enough tables and chairs
Luc Miron: @GuyF: Thanks. I just took the box art from the SG-1000 box.
Daniel B.: So, it's too soon to give details about the cost or the hotel, but we did decided the dates last year after hours of negociations between us.
Luc Miron: Okay, so what date is it?
Guy F.: Never heard of the game before though, Gulkave looks nice too... reserve me a copy of Gulkave when it comes out!
Daniel B.: AdamCon 22, June 17-20 2010.
Luc Miron: GuyF: I told you before, Guy, not only is your copy reserved, but it will be free as well. :)
Luc Miron: Your copy of Gulkave, that is.
Guy F.: Hey cool Luc, thanks! Yeah, you did say it before, I remember now. :)
Luc Miron: If you want a copy of Girl's Garden, you'll have to pay for it though...
rich-c: too busy with teh kids for game thinking?
Daniel B.: Well, June 17 is the first night. meetings star June 18 morning.
Guy F.: I'd probably buy another opcode game before girl's garden
Daniel B.: So, I should say it's june 18-20... anyway
rich-c: Frances and I will likely arrive a day or two early and maybe stay a bit after
Luc Miron: If you want to see a video of Girl's Garden (the SG-1000 version), just do a search on YouTube. It's a pretty cool little game.
Guy F.: yeah, my curiosity is piqued.
Guy F.: hey cool, I'm taking all of may and june as my vacation, so I'll still be on vacation for the adamcon.
rich-c: good, we'll draft you to do all the setup! ; - )
Guy F.: I'm on vacation, but still responsible for 3 children under 3. :)
Luc Miron: @GuyF: Oh, I just remembered something important!
Guy F.: well, the eldest is olrder than 3 now, so it doesn't work out exactly to 3 under 3.
Guy F.: Luc: Go ahead, tell me! :)
Luc Miron: Did you ever get around to asking your "Coco guru " about the manual for the Coco2 game "Module Man"?
rich-c: but close enough we aren't going to fuss it
Guy F.: Nope, but I can, onFacebook, I'll do it now, so I don't forget...
Luc Miron: Thanks. I still can't find much info on Module Man on the net.
Luc Miron: It's still on my to-do list though, along with so many others... All listed on my Team Pixelboy web site.
rich-c: did I tell you I have my own domain and am building a website?
Guy F.: OK, message sent.
Guy F.: Rich, great, what kind of website are you building?
rich-c: it's, parallel but different from www.carnuts,us
Guy F.: I hope that Pixelboy games will have a nice one or two hour segment to show all the creations during the adamcon.
Guy F.: excellent Rich... I will drop by when it is available to the general public.
rich-c: there's a great deal of backstory that doesn't matter, but once on has a domain, life is flexible
rich-c: first I have to get it converted from php.bb2 to php.bb3
Luc Miron: Well, I'll only have three or four "creations" ready in time for Adam: Peek-a-boo, Gulkave and Girl's Garden. Perhaps Track & Field too.
Luc Miron: But hey, CollectorVision will probably be there with Burn Rubber, playable with TWO steering wheels!
Luc Miron: (Thanks for contacting the guy on Facebook, BTW)
Daniel B.: I don't know what to do for the Adamcon. Last year I did talk about composing Coleco music based on the sound format to be used with the Coleco bios sound routines... but this year, I don't know. Hope to find a subject to talk about.
Luc Miron: Just don't go on a rant about the 4K mini-game compo, please... ;P
Guy F.: Going to use PHPBB like
Guy F.: hmmm, wonder if the chat crashed?
rich-c: a review of all this new third-party hardware would cover areas few of us know about
rich-c: yes, they are on version 3.0.6 and proSilver interface, which is what I want
rich-c: I'm working with my ISP to get teh upgrade made - it takes root permissions of the server
Daniel B.: well, minigames was my subject at Niagara Falls. Homebrew creations was my subject at Whiteby and Ottawa. Before that, when I wasn't even there, I did a presentation about programming Coleco games in C. And I did a pretty nice preentation specifically about minigames during the meeting we did release the minigames cartridge.
rich-c: I've told him to blow away the existing and put on the new version if that's easier
Daniel B.: So, I can't tlak really about minigames again
rich-c: well, you have never talked about the hardware, just about the emulator, if I recall correctly
Daniel B.: I prefer to talk about software, mostly because I don't really know the hardware. I can deal with it, but talking about it is another subject
rich-c: what is this Collector Vision or SEM or whatever? I think we'd be interested
moved to room Meeting Place
rich-c: or maybe you could lean on Luc or Guy to do a presentation on it?
changed username to Pamela
rich-c: hi daughter
Pamela: good evening
Luc Miron: Hi Pam. :)
Guy B: Hi Pam
rich-c: I'm great at volunteering other people to do things
Daniel B.: SEM is 3 letters refering to "super expansion module" which is using new hardware capacities to plug into the console... making it essentially another console with a lot of memory, sounds and graphics.
Luc Miron: CollectorVision is a ColecoVision games publisher, like me.
rich-c: maybe an overview of that whole scene, then, might be a good idea?
Luc Miron: The guy behind CollectorVision is Jean-François Dupuis, a guy who lives about 30 minutes away from my house, by car. He has already released several CV games, and his current release is a rather excellent version of Mario Bros.
Daniel B.: I'm not aware of everything, specially about new hardware.
Daniel B.: I've forgot... do not use accents in this chat.
Luc Miron: @Daniel: Yeah, I noticed. :)
Pamela: that's okay we get the gist : )
Luc Miron: The SEM is the Super Expansion Module, previously known as the Opgrade Module, a cartridge module that plugs into the CV's frontal expansion port, and increases the capabilities of the machine: 24K of RAM, a secondary MSX sound chip, etc.
Daniel B.: I think the name can confuse people who do know about games in tapes called super games.
rich-c: maybe Jean-Fran,cois belongs at an Adamcon, too?
Luc Miron: Yeah, I know. But the a moot point since Eduardo will be devoting his efforts to the CV2 now.\
Luc Miron: You can be absolutely certain that J-F will show up. Just decide on the date and the location and he'll be there, I assure you. :)
Daniel B.: All I have for now it's dates... we can't really change them
Pamela: its a start Daniel
Luc Miron: There should be a general announcement made on the AtariAge forums as soon as the hotel issue is resolved.
Daniel B.: I think it will be possible only at the end of the month
Luc Miron: Okay.
rich-c: Pam, how critical an issue is cost - remembering Daniel and Luc and Guy aren't exactly rolling in wealth - or Rich and Erin
rich-c: and have you any idea how much of a discount they should look for off the rack rates?
Pamela: cost is critical because it determines who can attend and who can't
Pamela: but it also gives you the opportunity to see how much bang you can get for your buck
rich-c: exactly my point - how much can our folks afford?
rich-c: I assume the Drushels, and likely the Slopsemas, will be driving
Pamela: the more you can roll into what you're charging, the less extraneous costs you'll have
rich-c: and they can use an American route and save on gas
Daniel B.: The airport is somehow close to the hilton hote
Daniel B.: *wanted to fix my text before sending it... too late
rich-c: yes, but who except GuyB and Ron (if possible) is likely to be flying in?
Pamela: honestly Daniel, being close to the airport is a small factor in the scheme of things. Most hotels have airport shuttles.
rich-c: if a better hotel comes cheaper 30 minutes from the airport, go for it
Daniel B.: ok then... next argument, GuyF's family is close to the hotel too.
rich-c: we have been known to go fetch people from airports ; - )
Pamela: the best asset you can possibly have in all of this is a cooperative catering manager
rich-c: we appear to have lost GuyF
Daniel B.: We'ce lost everyone
Daniel B.: oh no... I'm here
Pamela: I'm here
rich-c: me too, and Luc
Daniel B.: the screen was frozen for me during a minute
Guy B: Ok Back
Daniel B.: welcome back
rich-c: yes, it sometimes happens on this server
Pamela: Far better for the hotel to be reasonably priced, have the space we need and be willing to accomodate our needs
Daniel B.: my computer is slow now, I wonder why
rich-c: one leaves and he drags others with him
Daniel B.: probably the antivirus thing
rich-c: Guy, how will you likely travel to Adamcon thius year?
Pamela: and for the hotel to have some key basics such as disability friendly and handicapped accessible rooms, and lots of handicapped parking
Guy B: Won't be driving that's for sure
Pamela: how's the car, Guy?
Daniel B.: I know that bathrooms is not a problem... for the rest, from what we have seen with GuyF while driving by the hotel, it looks like
Daniel B.: *it looks fine
rich-c: lots of other things too, Pam - enough lighting, internet connection in rooms, decent chairs and table/desk
Pamela: driving by is not good enough Daniel - he needs to go in and have a good look around from a convention perspective
rich-c: for instance, Daniel, we need double beds because I use my pressurized air machine to breathe all night
Guy B: Ok, so far. The light went on Sunday. Then the car was running fine then the light went off.
Pamela: the check engine light?
Guy B: Dealership told me, should the Trac Off come on again. Bring it in
Pamela: oy
Guy B: We got above freezing today. So, we finally broke the ice, so to speak
Daniel B.: I'll not remember everything from the chat.
Pamela: I know Daniel
Pamela: I'm still working on getting that outline done for you
rich-c: yes, we were above freezing a while today, with the same forecast for tomorrow
Pamela: must sit down with that in the next few days
Daniel B.: here, tonight is not only cold, it's incredibly cold
Daniel B.: maybe it's the wind or something, but it's very very cold
Pamela: sounds like you still have yesterday's weather : )
rich-c: it's what we had teh last few days, Daniel - cold with a biting wind - it will pass
Daniel B.: almost time for me to leave. goodnight and if Luc is still here : "bonsoir et on se reparlera cerainement"
Daniel B.: bye
Pamela: goodnight Daniel
rich-c: bonsoir, Daniel - a la prochaine
Guy B: Night Daniel
Luc Miron: Bye Dan!
Luc Miron: I have to leave too. I'm glad I dropped by tonight. :)
Pamela: bonsoir, Luc - good to see you
rich-c: Guy, Porter Airlines now serves both Montreal and Chicago Midway, don't know if they are straight through
Luc Miron: Ciao! (*poof*)
Luc Miron left chat session
Pamela: I wish I could the rest of my life organized as easily as convention planning seems to come to me
Guy B: I know, they been advertising in the paper.
rich-c: they fly out of Toronto Island (Downtown) airport with Bombardier Q400 aircraft
Pamela: Hey Dad, did Mom have a good day?
rich-c: don't know how their prices stack up - Westjet might also be an option
rich-c: no, she was very down all day, no reason, just felt off colour
Guy B: Daniel still has to find a hotel or has he narrowed a couple down?
Pamela: he's still working on the hotel but I believe he has some options
Pamela: that's no good Dad
rich-c: well, he has his eye on one, but maybe he shouldn't fizate on it
rich-c: the room rate is high - $124/ night, and so is the meeting room, I suspect
Guy B: Whoa
Guy B: My company's is going to have the convention in Montreal in June and they are already taking registrations and more are coming in everyday. I believe it's in the middle of June
rich-c: we're trying to offer a little coaching, maybe get GuyF and Luc into the act
Guy B: Would help
rich-c: yes, especially if they will pay your air fare - but what if it overlaps the Adamcon?
Pamela: you don't have a conflict, do you?
Guy B: No, I won't be at the company's convention.
rich-c: but if there is schedule overlap, maube you can get a break on air fares? how's your HR department?
Pamela: its one of the reasons we want to get the hotel nailed down as soon as possible
Pamela: mid June is high convention and wedding season
Guy B: The company holds them either in May or June.
Pamela: it's also why the bigger hotels are not such a good idea
rich-c: I suspect Guy's outfit has had it set up since 2008 or earlier
rich-c: if they are there over the weekend of the 13th they might be sorry, with the race on
Pamela: sorry I'm a bit distracted here
Guy B: Oh yeah. He should work around that
rich-c: wondering where you had got to
Pamela: the race is the week before the convention? Then a smaller hotel might be very happy to see us.
rich-c: well we're already set for teh 17th - 20th so the race will be gone and Quebec National Day still to come
rich-c: not sure but I think Daniel is looking at a Hilton
Pamela: I really must go and write that down
Pamela: It seems to me that what he said he was looking at was a Hampton Inn by Hilton
Pamela: still, somewhat expensive
Guy B: My company's convention is from June 20 through the 23rd
Pamela: and I think one of the reasons it's favoured is because it's fairly close to Guy Foster's place
rich-c: could well be, Pam - they are nice but pricey
Pamela: any place with Hilton in the name is going to be pricey
Guy B: Yes, indeed
Pamela: I really need to get going on that outline
rich-c: made the point with him that distance to the airport was a secondary consideration
rich-c: after all, from St. Cathariness we picked him up from Hamilton
Pamela: well it really isn't already that far from St. C to Ham, and it's all highway
Pamela: that wouldn't necessarily be the case in Montreal
rich-c: make sure your clue sheet picks up teh need for lots of electrical outlets in the rooms
Pamela: I have no idea where the airport is in relation to Laval for instance
rich-c: not to mention decent lighting and chairs
Pamela: well hotel rooms are pretty standard Dad
rich-c: relatively close in - get up Mapquest or Google Maps
Pamela: I know nothing about how Montreal is laid out
Pamela: must get a map and study it
rich-c: not they are not Pam, some are as bad on outlets as your apartment
rich-c: you want Dorval up to the northwest - I think it's been renamed for Trudeau now that he's safely dead
Pamela: outlets are not our issue here Dad - circuits are our issue : )
rich-c: I will likely bring an extension cord and power bar or two
Pamela: never a bad thing to have : )
rich-c: but of course those have three-prong plugs and bet on the outlets being two prong
Pamela: well we're nitpicking now Papa
Pamela: that's for a later conversation
Pamela: we need to look at the bigger picture right now
rich-c: when I have to plug in a CPAP machine within reach of the bed, it can be a big niot to pick
Pamela: well first let's find the hotel, then we can nitpick
Guy B: Exactly
rich-c: yes, that is definitely the order of priority, just don't spend too much time on a hopelessly useless place
Guy B: Anyway, we are the only three left
rich-c: yes, it's a thin night tonight, be better next week
Pamela: with the Slopsemas out of town and Ron still nursing Sue, we're a bit thin on the ground
rich-c: yes, that cuts us down, doesn't it?
Pamela: it does indeed
Guy B: And I got through burning 15 albums to about 20 CD's last weekend
Pamela: that's good news Guy
rich-c: that's quite an accomplishment, Guy - I still haven't even opened my USB turntable
Guy B: That's the most I've done
Pamela: you need to get going on that Dad
Guy B: I'm recording my 45 records at the moment
rich-c: I have a list, Pam, but it's a long one
rich-c: the rear door seal pulled off on the van today
Pamela: well that's a pain
Pamela: I'm assuming you're talking about the back cargo doors
Pamela: and not the sliding door
rich-c: I was telling teh gang earlier - everything plastic I touched, broke
Pamela: well then stop touching!
rich-c: lost my coffee measuring spoon, tag off the breadbag, handle off our shopping bag...
rich-c: yes, the side door is OK, but those damn things are expensive
Pamela: geez Dad, sounds like you've been channeling me!
rich-c: not like Guy's light, but expensive
Guy B: Well folks, I'm going to call it the night. Will see you all next week
Pamela: g'nite Guy
rich-c: OK Guy, see you then
Pamela: good luck with the car
Guy B: Will keep posted on that
rich-c: good
Guy B: Poof
Guy B left chat session
rich-c: anyway, have our old farts luncheon tomoprrow - your mother is coming
Pamela: that's nice - where?
rich-c: Royal Canadian Military Institute - that place a couple of blocks up from your office with the cannons in front
Pamela: is there parking?
rich-c: no, we will be taking a taxi
Pamela: okay good solution
Pamela: where is it, address wise?
rich-c: given the circumstances, likely our best - I've already got it ordered.
rich-c: don't know but it's just up from the US Consulate, south of Dundas
Pamela: okay not too far from me
Pamela: what about celebrating Mom's birthday?
rich-c: about four blocks, I think - nothing at all in summer
Pamela: well a little farther than that - I'm at Wellington, don't forget
rich-c: we had ice cream as her indulgence tonight - that's what she wanted so that's what we got
Pamela: any plans for this weekend?
rich-c: so King - Adelaide - Richmond - Queen, and a partial block more
rich-c: hibernation?
Pamela: LOL, it supposed to be quite pleasant weather wise
Pamela: so maybe a good time not to hibernate
rich-c: what constitutes pleasant depends on your age
rich-c: try "not so bad" 8-)
Pamela: between minus 10 and just above freezing, I'll take just above freezing any time
rich-c: depends on sun and wind - bright sun and no breeze -10 can be livable
Pamela: true
rich-c: besides, I got me a balaclava and real mitts now
Pamela: anyway I'll call you to make plans to come by
Pamela: nice to meet you, Sasquatch : )
rich-c: far as I know we will not be going out at all
rich-c: so we shall await your call
Pamela: hopefully tomorrow evening - must consult with the hubby
rich-c: we should be home in lots of time
Pamela: well have fun
rich-c: right
Pamela: if you get the urge, drop by my office for a tour
rich-c: long trip without my walker
Pamela: : (
Pamela: okay, I'm outta here Papa
rich-c: OK, nitey-night, daughter
Pamela: kiss Mama for me
rich-c: will do
Pamela: night - kerpoof!
Pamela left chat session
rich-c: colour me gone
rich-c left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to jorge latino > chat > Thu 2010-01-14
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